Sex Is Not Something You “Have” Episode 18
“The man (Adam) knew his wife Chava…”
The man (Adam) knew: Already, before the preceding story – before he sinned and was banished from the Garden of Eden; and the pregnancy and birth are the same [i.e., took place before the sin and subsequent banishment from the Garden of Eden]. For if it had written, “The man knew” [with different Hebrew syntax] it would have implied that he had children after he was banished. [Because the syntax is not like this, the implication is that the children were born in the Garden of Eden.]
“After he [Yitzchak] had been there for a long time, Avimelech, the king of the Pelishtim, looked out of his window, and he saw – behold! Yitzchak was intimate with his wife, Rivka.”
Avimelech… looked out etc.: He saw him having intercourse.
“If he takes another wife, he may not avoid giving her [i.e., the first wife] food, clothing, and sexual intimacy.”
The conjugal requirement of the Torah: people who don’t work – daily; workers – twice a week; donkey drivers – once a week; camel drivers – once every thirty days; sailors – once every six months; this is the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer.
When does the conjugal requirement for scholars take place? Rav Yehuda says in the name of Shmuel: on Friday nights. “Which gives its fruit in the proper time” (Tehillim 1:3) – Rav Yehuda or perhaps Rav Huna or perhaps Rav Nachman says: this verse refers to a person who has sexual intimacy on Friday nights.
And in my humble opinion, it seems that the main obligation of conjugal relations is when a husband sees that [his wife] is longing for him; for this reason Rava said in Masechet Pesachim 72, “A man is obligated to give joy to his wife in the matter of a mitzvah [i.e., have intercourse with her], which Rashi explains means even when it is not the required time… In any case, since we have seen that the wife’s desire and longing create the obligation of conjuugal relations on a Torah level, it is sensible that this is, indeed, the Biblical requirement of conjugal relations.”
Rav Joseph B. Soloveitchik, “The Redemption of Sexual Life” in Family Redeemed (p. 94):
This eternal quest of the unique, lonely individual to flee his solitude and to share his personal existence with others, finds fulfillment via a carnal medium. G-d, somehow, employs the flesh as the instrument of His will in order to enable a metaphysical craving to become a reality.
Rabbi Dov Linzer, “Two Approaches to Marital Sex”: https://library.yctorah.org/2009/12/two-approaches-to-marital-sex/
Forthright and frank, yet respectful and sensitive, I Am for My Beloved: A Guide to Enhanced Intimacy for Married Couples by Talli Rosenbaum and David Ribner will help couples enrich their marital and sexual lives, and maintain passion and intimacy within the framework of Jewish tradition.
A man’s wife is permitted to him. Therefore, whatever a man wants to do with his wife, he may do. He may have intercourse anytime he wants, kiss any part of her body, and have intercourse vaginally, anally, or “by way of her limbs” [as long as he does not spill seed for no purpose]. Nonetheless, it is an attribute of piety that a person should not act lightheartedly in these matters, and that he should sanctify himself during marital relations…
This is the text found in most versions of the Mishneh Torah today. However, as mentioned on the podcast, most early manuscripts of the Mishneh Torah do not include the bracketed words.
And Rabbi Yochanan’s statement that the law is not like Rabbi Yochanan ben Dahavai, but instead that whatever a man wants to do with his wife, he may do, similar to a fish brought by the fisherman etc., which implies that it is fully permitted to do this – it seems to me that this only refers to “upturning the table” (i.e., vaginal intercourse performed in atypical positions) alone.
Please listen to Intimate Judaism Episode 8 – “Sex Within Marriage: What’s Allowed and What’s Not?” for a more extensive discussion of the original Gemara cited by the Raavad, and a fuller explanation of the disagreement of the Raavad and the Rambam.
A person should not act lightheaded with his wife, and should not speak inappropriate talk, even between the two of them. Indeed, the verse says, “He tells a man about his speech.” Our sages said that a person will be brought to judgment even for small talk between him and his wife. He should not speak to her at the time of intercourse nor beforehand, so that he doesn’t think about another woman; and if he does speak to her and have intercourse immediately afterwards – the verse “He tells a man about his speech” refers to him. However, he is allowed to talk to her regarding matters of intimacy, in order to increase his desire; or if he were angry with her and wants to appease her, he may speak to her to calm her down.
Note (Rama): He may do what he wants with his wife: he may have intercourse anytime he wants, kiss any part of her body, and have intercourse vaginally, anally, or “by way of her limbs”- as long as he does not waste seed for no purpose. And there are those who are lenient, saying that anal intercourse is permitted even if he spills seed for no purpose, if it’s done occasionally and he is not accustomed to doing it. Nonetheless, even though all these are permitted, anyone who sanctifies himself by refraining from doing that which is permitted is called a holy person.
Therefore, even though we have established that whatever a man wants to do with his wife, he may do when she is in a state of purity – he may have intercourse anytime he wants, kiss any part of her body, and have intercourse vaginally, anally, or “by way of her limbs”- as long as he does not spill seed for no purpose – nevertheless, someone who is careful about his practices should not do this; rather he should have intercourse in the place on her body where it is possible that she will conceive and from which she gives birth, for it is impossible that otherwise he will not spill seed for no purpose, and this is a very serious sin. Although there are those who are lenient also in this matter when it is done occasionally and he is not accustomed to doing it – it nonetheless is difficult to say this and a person who guards his soul will distance himself from it, and anyone who sanctifies himself by refraining from doing that which is permitted is called a holy person.
Shapiro, Yaakov: Halachic Positions: What Judaism Really Says About Passion in the Marital Bed. 2015.
Talli Rosenbaum’s review of Halachic Positions:
http://tallirosenbaum.com/en/node/255
Four part interview with Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro on the “Orthodox Conundrum” podcast:
http://jewishcoffeehouse.com/episode-5-is-non-vaginal-intercourse-permissible/
הרב דוד סתיו והרב אברהם סתיו: אבוא ביתך: שאלות ותשובות בנושא זוגיות ומשפחה. ספרי מגיד, הוצאת קורן 2017.
“I am his vessel”: Influence of male ejaculatory restrictions on women’s sexual autonomy in Orthodox Jewish marriages, by Talli Y. Rosenbaum, MSc
(This article was originally published in Hebrew in Kolech: Women and Her Judaism, Jerusalem, Israel 2012)
הרב יצחק רונס: “מגע פיזי בין בני זוג נשואים ללא ביאה”, אסיא צז-צח, תשע”ה, 134-140
During the month of Tishri, we engage in a process of Tshuva; self-reflection and repentance. Through prayer, we repair our relationships and connect with God, with ourselves, and with those we may have hurt. In this mini episode, join Rabbi Scott Kahn and Talli Rosenbaum as they discuss how the basic elements of the tshuva process can serve as a model for healing and repairing our relationships with ourselves and the significant others in our lives. Read More
Forthright and frank, yet respectful and sensitive, I Am for My Beloved: A Guide to Enhanced Intimacy for Married Couples by Talli Rosenbaum and David Ribner will help couples enrich their marital and sexual lives, and maintain passion and intimacy within the framework of Jewish tradition.
Talli Y. Rosenbaum: “When Your Spouse Loses Religion”
http://tallirosenbaum.com/en/node/289
(Originally published in The Times of Israel, October 16, 2017)
הרב דוד סתיו והרב אברהם סתיו: אבוא ביתך: שאלות ותשובות בנושא זוגיות ומשפחה. ספרי מגיד, הוצאת קורן 2017
Forthright and frank, yet respectful and sensitive, I Am for My Beloved: A Guide to Enhanced Intimacy for Married Couples by Talli Rosenbaum and David Ribner will help couples enrich their marital and sexual lives, and maintain passion and intimacy within the framework of Jewish tradition.
Forthright and frank, yet respectful and sensitive, I Am for My Beloved: A Guide to Enhanced Intimacy for Married Couples by Talli Rosenbaum and David Ribner will help couples enrich their marital and sexual lives, and maintain passion and intimacy within the framework of Jewish tradition.
Talli Rosenbaum and Rabbi Scott Kahn address your questions in this special Q&A episode of Intimate Judaism. Among the issues they deal with are homosexuality and Orthodoxy, Halacha’s attitude toward sterilization via tubal ligation or vasectomy, whether we should encourage our children to talk to kids of the opposite gender, and more.
1) “Is it allowed to have a woman’s tubes tied or a man to have a vasectomy so that women don’t need to endanger their health with hormones for birth control, or to avoid becoming a nida? I cannot even think about being a nida for the next 30 years every month or so, and when I’m done with having kids I don’t mind making that permanent.”
2) “I was hoping you could talk a little about asexuality. Are there any religiously-required acts that need to take place, especially in an otherwise sexless marriage? Would all the rules of Niddah apply when there’s no chance of sex occuring? As a sex therapist, do you run into asexual people or relationships where one person is asexual? What do you say to them? What kind of compromises are healthy and which aren’t?”
3) “We have had close family friends who are gay men. I find it hard to accept that there is a prohibition against gay men living a happy life and finding companionship. I know that it’s often said that that this is an option and a choice, but our friends said they knew they were gay since they were young. I feel like every Jewish person should find a home in Orthodoxy, but how could these gay men find a place in Orthodox Judaism?”
4) “I am a father, and my daughter is in 9th grade. We are a pretty frum daati leumi family, and she confided in me that a boy started speaking to her over WhatsApp. From one perspective, our background makes me want to say no boys, and to instruct my daughter not to speak to him. But from a different perspective, this is likely normal for kids that age. What should I do? (P.S. – I was definitely talking to girls when I was that age.)”
5) “ I sometimes feel that the rules of niddah are very Talibanish, especially the idea of women having to do bedikot daily for the shiva nekiim. Isn’t that way too invasive and over the top?”
Forthright and frank, yet respectful and sensitive, I Am for My Beloved: A Guide to Enhanced Intimacy for Married Couples by Talli Rosenbaum and David Ribner will help couples enrich their marital and sexual lives, and maintain passion and intimacy within the framework of Jewish tradition.
Here is the link to the article by Talli Rosenbaum referenced in the podcast:
https://www.jewishideas.org/article/observant-married-jewish-women-and-sexual-life-empirical-study
Dr. Michelle Friedman, Dr. Ellen Labinsky, Dr. James Schmeidler, Dr. Rachel Yehuda, Talli Rosenbaum: Observant Married Jewish Women and Sexual Life; An Empirical Study. Conversations: The Institute for Jewish Ideas and Ideals, vol. 5.
We thank our guest yoatzot halacha for joining us on this episode of Intimate Judaism:
Nechama Goldman Barash made aliyah from Philadelphia over 20 years ago after graduating from Stern College. She studied for three years in Matan’s Advanced Talmud Institute and finished a master’s degree in Talmud at Bar-Ilan University. She is a graduate of Nishmat’s Yoetzet Halacha program and has been certified to teach brides before their weddings, as well as qualifying as a sex educator through Yahel and the Eden Center. She also studied for three years in Matan’s advanced halakha program, Hilkhata.
She teaches contemporary halakha and Talmud at Matan and Pardes, as well as Talmud and women and halakha in Torah V’Avodah (TVA), a Bnei Akiva gap year program based in Matan. She is an active member of Beit Hillel and participates in interfaith dialogue through Roots, based in Gush Etzion, close to where she lives with her family. She is currently working on a book dealing with matters of gender and halakha.
Atara Eis studied to become a Yoetzet Halacha at Nishmat in Yerushalayim, worked for several years as a community Yoetzet Halacha in different shuls in the United States, and directs Nishmat’s Miriam Glaubach Center, which educates and certifies Yoatzot Halacha in the United States, offers continuing professional education for Yoatzot Halacha, helps place Yoatzot Halacha in communities, provides extensive support for communities employing them, and offers programming for Rebbetzins, mikveh attendants and Kallah teachers.
Forthright and frank, yet respectful and sensitive, I Am for My Beloved: A Guide to Enhanced Intimacy for Married Couples by Talli Rosenbaum and David Ribner will help couples enrich their marital and sexual lives, and maintain passion and intimacy within the framework of Jewish tradition.
“I am his vessel”: Influence of male ejaculatory restrictions on women’s sexual autonomy in Orthodox Jewish marriages, by Talli Y. Rosenbaum, MSc
(This article was originally published in Hebrew in Kolech: Women and Her Judaism, Jerusalem, Israel 2012)
http://tallirosenbaum.com/en/node/201
Forthright and frank, yet respectful and sensitive, I Am for My Beloved: A Guide to Enhanced Intimacy for Married Couples by Talli Rosenbaum and David Ribner will help couples enrich their marital and sexual lives, and maintain passion and intimacy within the framework of Jewish tradition.