Intimate Judaism’s most recent episode, ‘Shomer Negiah: Premarital Sexual Activity and Jewish Values,” generated plenty of comments, discussion, and disagreement. In this bonus episode, Talli Rosenbaum and Rabbi Scott Kahn address listener comments, and expand on the differences between guilt and shame, whether a person “has to” consult a rabbi before making a Halachic decision, the consequences of non-Halachic sexual activity and more.

Forthright and frank, yet respectful and sensitive, I Am for My Beloved: A Guide to Enhanced Intimacy for Married Couples by Talli Rosenbaum and David Ribner will help couples enrich their marital and sexual lives, and maintain passion and intimacy within the framework of Jewish tradition.

As human beings, we are wired for connection, and the desire for intimate touch is a natural instinct. However, Jewish Law is clear that premarital sexual activity, even when it doesn’t involve sexual intercourse, is forbidden. How do we manage that tension? Do we acknowledge that the halachot of refraining from touching the opposite gender are not universally observed, and discuss openly which prohibitions are Torah law and which are Rabbinic enactments so that individuals can choose to “lessen” the prohibition? Will that be understood as tacit sanctioning of premarital touching?  How do we impart our values without creating feelings of guilt and conflict about sexuality? What are the keys to discussing premarital sexual activity with Orthodox Jews in an honest and healthy manner? Join Talli Rosenbaum and Rabbi Scott Kahn for a fascinating and frank discussion of these important religious and educational issues.

Sex outside the context of marriage: Torah or Rabbinic prohibition?

Rambam Sefer HaMitzvot Lo Taaseh 355 – Torah Prohibition

הזהיר שלא לבא על אשה בלא כתובה וקדושין, והוא אמרו לא תהיה קדשה מבנות ישראל. וכבר נכפלה האזהרה בזה הענין בלשון אחר, והוא אמרו אל תחלל את בתך להזנותה. ולשון ספרי אל תחלל את בתך להזנותה זה המוסר בתו פנויה שלא לשם אישות, וכן המוסרת עצמה שלא לשם אישות… וזה הלאו כלומר לאו דפנויה לוקין עליו.

Mishneh Torah Hilchot Isurei Biah 18:2 – Torah prohibition:

וכן הבא על הפנויה אפילו היתה קדשה שהפקירה עצמה לכל אע”פ שהיא במלקות לא נעשת זונה ולא נפסלה מן הכהונה שהרי אינה אסורה להנשא לו…

Mishneh Torah Hilchot Ishut 1:4 – Torah prohibition:

קודם מתן תורה היה אדם פוגע אשה בשוק אם רצה הוא והיא נותן לה שכרה ובועל אותה על אם הדרך והולך. וזו היא הנקראת קדשה. משנתנה התורה נאסרה הקדשה שנאמר לא תהיה קדשה מבנות ישראל. לפיכך כל הבועל אשה לשם זנות בלא קידושין לוקה מן התורה לפי שבעל קדשה.

Hasagot HaRaavad Ishut 1:4 – Rabbinic prohibition:

אומר אברהם: אין קדשה אלא מזומנת והיא המופקרת לכל אדם אבל המייחדת עצמה לאיש אחד אין בה לא מלקות ולא איסור לאו והיא הפילגש הכתובה בפסוק ובעלי הלשון דורשין פילגש מלה הפוכה ומורכבת בפי שגל עומדת לפרקים למשגל משמשת את הבית ופעמים למשכב. ויש ספרים שכתוב בהם פילגשים קידושין בלא כתובה. מכל מקום אין איסור לאו אלא במזמנת עצמה לכל אדם…

Hasagot HaRamban l’Sefer HaMitzvot Lo Taaseh 355 – Rabbinic prohibition:

…אבל [דברי הרמב”ם] בכתובה וקדושין אינו אמת, שהכתובה אינה מן התורה כלל, והקדושין מצוה וקנין באשה. אבל אנחנו התנינו בענין הלאו הזה שתהיה המניעה בביאה אסורה שאין קדושין תופסין בהן, שכבר נתבאר בדבריהם שאין זונה בכל מקום בתורה בכהן ואתנן אלא באיסורי הביאה שאין בהם קדושין, וכן הזכירו בכל לשון זנות שבא בתורה. אם כן אל תחלל את בתך להזנותה יזהיר מזה… אסר [על האב] למכרה למי שאין קדושין שלו תופסין בה, וכן גם כן לאו הקדשה כך הוא.

Mishneh Torah Hilchot Isurei Biah 12:1-2 – Qualification of Rambam’s Torah prohibition:

א: ישראל שבעל עכו”ם משאר האומות דרך אישות או ישראלית שנבעלה לעכו”ם דרך אישות הרי אלו לוקין מן התורה שנאמר לא תתחתן בם בתך לא תתן לבנו ובתו לא תקח לבנך אחד שבעה עממין ואחד כל אומות באיסור זה וכן מפורש על ידי עזרא ואשר לא נתן בנותינו לעמי הארץ ואת בנותיהם לא נקח לבנינו.

ב: לא אסרה תורה אלא דרך חתנות אבל הבא על הכותית דרך זנות מכין אותו מכת מרדות מדברי סופרים גזירה שמא יבא להתחתן ואם ייחדה לו בזנות חייב עליה משום נדה ומשום שפחה ומשום כותית ומשום זונה ואם לא ייחדה לו אלא נקראת מקרה אינו חייב אלא משום כותית וכל חיובין אלו מדבריהן.

What is the halachic definition of sexual intercourse?

Mishneh Torah Hilchot Isurei Biah 1:10-11:

י: המכניס ראש העטרה בלבד הוא הנקרא מערה מלשון את מקורה הערה והמכניס כל האבר הוא הנקרא גומר ובכל הביאות האסורות אחד המערה ואחד הגומר ואע”פ שלא הוציא שכבת זרע ואף על פי שפירש ולא גמר כיון שהכניס ראש העטרה נתחייבו שניהם מיתת ב”ד או כרת או מלקות או מכת מרדות ואחד הבא על הערוה כדרכה ואחד הבא עליה שלא כדרכה משיערה בה יתחייבו שניהן מיתה או כרת או מלקות או מכת מרדות בין שהיו שוכבין בין שהיו עומדים על הכנסת העטרה הוא החיוב.

יא: כל הבא ביאה אסורה בלא קישוי אלא שהיה האבר שלו מדולדל כמו אבר המתים כגון החולים או מי שנולד כך כגון סריס חמה אף על פי שהכניס את האבר בידו אינו חייב לא כרת ולא מלקות ואין צריך לומר מיתה שאין זו ביאה אבל פוסל הוא מן התרומה ובית דין מכין את שניהם מכת מרדות.

Sexual Touching outside the context of marriage: Torah or Rabbinic prohibition?

Rambam Sefer HaMitzvot Lo Taaseh 353 – Torah prohibition:

הזהיר מהקרב אל אחת מהעריות האלו ואפילו בלא ביאה כגון חבוק ונשיקה והדומה להם מן הפעולות הזרות, והוא אמרו באזהרה מזה איש איש אל כל שאר בשרו לא תקרבו לגלות ערוה, כאילו יאמר לא תקרבו שום קירוב שיביא לגלות ערוה. ולשון ספרא לא תקרבו לגלות ערוה אין לי אלא שלא יגלה מנין שלא יקרב תלמוד לומר ואל אשה בנדת טומאתה לא תקרב, אין לי אלא נדה שהיא בבל תקרב ובל תגלה מנין לכל העריות שהן בבל תקרבו ובל תגלו תלמוד לומר לא תקרבו לגלות, ושם אמרו ונכרתו הנפשות העושות מה תלמוד לומר לפי שנאמר לא תקרבו יכול יהיו חייבים כרת על הקריבה תלמוד לומר העושות ולא הקרבות.

Mishneh Torah Hilchot Isurei Biah 21:1 – Torah prohibition:

כל הבא על ערוה מן העריות דרך איברים או שחבק ונשק דרך תאוה ונהנה בקרוב בשר הרי זה לוקה מן התורה שנאמר לבלתי עשות מחקות התועבות וגו’ ונאמר לא תקרבו לגלות ערוה כלומר לא תקרבו לדברים המביאין לידי גילוי ערוה.

In several places, the Rambam includes a woman who is in a state of Nidah in the category of arayot. Since his understanding of the Torah prohibition means that a man may not touch all “arayot,” this would include all women who are in a state of Nidah. However, the Torah prohibition seemingly would not extend to single men and women, otherwise permissible to each other, touching when the woman is not in a state of Nidah. Even according to the Rambam, this would seem to be a Rabbinic prohibition rather than a Torah law.

Hasagot HaRamban l’Sefer HaMitzvot Lo Taaseh 353 – Rabbinic prohibition:

והנה הרב מצא הברייתא הזו המפורשת ותלה דבריו באילן גדול, אבל כפי העיון בתלמוד אין הדבר כן שיהיה בקריבה שאין בה גלוי ערוה כגון חבוק ונשוק לאו ומלקות… וכיון שלא עשו כן נבין מהם כי אצלם זה האיסור מדרבנן, או יהיה מן התורה דכל דמתהני מאיסורא אסורא הוא כענין בחצי שיעור. אבל אין זה עיקר מדרש בלאו הזה אלא קרא אסמכתא בעלמא והרבה מאד כן בסיפרא ובסיפרי.

As human beings, we are wired for connection. When we connect emotionally with a member of the opposite sex, and experience attraction, and/or affection, the desire for intimate touch is a natural instinct. In society at large, this desire is understood to be moderated by social rules that include determining availability, and mutual consent and should include communication about boundaries and prevention of pregnancy when applicable. According to Jewish law, however, premarital sexual activity, even when it doesn’t involve sexual intercourse, is strictly forbidden. This can result in an inner conflict.  We are committed to observe the laws but struggle, and sometimes fail, with refraining from all touch which can feel awkward and unnatural. This tension between human longing and restrictions in behavior is at the core of what being an observant Jew is about. Yet, the paradigm of this power struggle, particularly when the desire side wins out, as it often does, may fail to address the important issues of boundaries, mutuality, consent and birth control, as well as relate to the “degrees” of religious prohibition involved. In this episode, we talk about the keys to discussing premarital sexual activity with Orthodox Jews in an honest and healthy manner.

Forthright and frank, yet respectful and sensitive, I Am for My Beloved: A Guide to Enhanced Intimacy for Married Couples by Talli Rosenbaum and David Ribner will help couples enrich their marital and sexual lives, and maintain passion and intimacy within the framework of Jewish tradition.

How do we give our kids the right message so that they will be able to experience intimacy in marriage?. What is the connection between growing up in a safe and secure environment, and the ability to experience pleasure in the context of marital intimacy? Why is it necessary to avoid judging our children, even when we disagree with their decisions? What do we mean when we try to teach them about intimacy? And how can our relationship with G-d serve as a model for intimacy with a spouse?

The ways we raise our children will affect them throughout their lives. We need to be cognizant of the fact that even when they’re young, we are already helping them understand what marriage is and should be.

Preparing children for a Jewish marriage includes discussing and exploring intimacy, relationships, and the development of the self – including, but not limited to, the sexual part of the self.

Mesachet Shabbat 88a:

“ויתיצבו בתחתית ההר אמר רב אבדימי בר חמא בר חסא מלמד שכפה הקדוש ברוך הוא עליהם את ההר כגיגית ואמר להם אם אתם מקבלים התורה מוטב ואם לאו שם תהא קבורתכם.”

‘They stood at the foot of [lit: underneath] the mountain.’ Rav Avdimi bar Chama bar Chasa said: This teaches that the Holy One, Blessed is He, overturned the mountain upon them like a barrel, saying to them, ‘If you accept the Torah – well and good; if not, your graves will be there.’

Our relationship with G-d can be used as a model of how we look at a Jewish marriage.

Like Matan Torah, marriage is an absolute commitment, which was freely entered into by both parties.
Like Matan Torah, marriage consists of both public and private aspects.
Like Matan Torah, marriage includes a legal covenant, alongside love, happiness, and friendship

Psychologist Robert Sternberg explains that romantic love has 3 basic elements:

1. Passion
2. Intimacy
3. Commitment

Intimacy is often seen as a synonym for sex, but the term is actually much more expansive. There are many types of intimacy, including marital intimacy. This consists of:

• A mutual feeling that you and your partner can be your authentic selves in front of each other
• The ability to truly listen
• The power to validate your partner
• To avoid being defensive and reactive all the time
• To remain calm in the fact of conflict -and to have desire and ability to resolve the conflict

Intimacy is a function of your own personal developmental skills; the less validation you receive as a child, the less self aware you are likely to be as an adult.

An important component in child development is teaching them a language to articulate their emotions & validating them. This provides them with crucial language skills which they will need later on in life with their partner.

When you validate your children’s emotions, it’s less likely for them to repress those emotions.

Growing up in a safe & secure environment is a significant foundation for intimacy. If you feel safe and secure, you are more likely to feel relaxed and allow yourself to experience intimacy and pleasure.

Children need to learn how to self soothe when needs are not met.

We need to ingrain in our children that they are unconditionally loved, and should feel comfortable telling their parents the truth, without the fear of being judged.

We may disagree with our children’s decisions, but our disapproval cannot be expressed as a change in our love.

Forthright and frank, yet respectful and sensitive, I Am for My Beloved: A Guide to Enhanced Intimacy for Married Couples by Talli Rosenbaum and David Ribner will help couples enrich their marital and sexual lives, and maintain passion and intimacy within the framework of Jewish tradition.

Parents who are part of the Halachic community must balance the messages children hear from the outside world with the Torah values they are taught at home and in school. How can we achieve this balance so that our kids respect the Halachic attitudes toward sex, while also growing into sexually healthy adults? Is there a way to use media in order to educate? How does our use of language convey appropriate or inappropriate messages? Join Talli Rosenbaum and Rabbi Scott Kahn for a fascinating discussion.

Link to Times of Israel article: Ten Tips to Raising Sexually Healthy Orthodox Daughters

Masechet Berachot 24a:

אמר ר׳ יצחק טפח באשה ערוה למאי אילימא לאסתכולי בה והא אמר רב ששת למה מנה הכתוב תכשיטין שבחוץ עם תכשיטין שבפנים לומר לך כל המסתכל באצבע קטנה של אשה כאילו מסתכל במקום התורף 
אלא באשתו ולקריאת שמע

This source apparently says that a woman must be completely covered, to the degree that even her little finger is not a source of sexual arousal.

But read with nuance, this same Gemara shows that Chazal refused to allow men to objectify women, more than it defines the ways a woman must dress. Indeed, read properly, Chazal are actually promoting a positive body image for women.

Sexual development begins at birth & is composed of 3 components: Read More

While male masturbation is unequivocally prohibited under Jewish law, this prohibition often creates serious conflict and guilt in the religious and private lives of young Orthodox men, with serious long-term consequences. In this episode of Intimate Judaism, Rabbi Scott Kahn and Talli Rosenbaum discuss this important topic, and attempt to outline how parents, teachers, and children should navigate the dual tracks of strengthening a commitment to Halacha, while enabling healthy sexual growth and attitudes.

Bereishit 38:8-10

ח וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוּדָה לְאוֹנָן בֹּא אֶל אֵשֶׁת אָחִיךָ וְיַבֵּם אֹתָהּ וְהָקֵם זֶרַע לְאָחִיךָ. ט וַיֵּדַע אוֹנָן כִּי לֹּא לוֹ יִהְיֶה הַזָּרַע וְהָיָה אִם בָּא אֶל אֵשֶׁת אָחִיו וְשִׁחֵת אַרְצָה לְבִלְתִּי נְתָן זֶרַע לְאָחִיו. י וַיֵּרַע בְּעֵינֵי ה’ אֲשֶׁר עָשָׂה וַיָּמֶת גַּם אֹתוֹ.

Masechet Nida 13a

…דא”ר יוחנן כל המוציא שכבת זרע לבטלה חייב מיתה שנאמר (בראשית לח, י) וירע בעיני ה’ (את) אשר עשה וימת גם אותו רבי יצחק ורבי אמי אמרי כאילו שופך דמים שנאמר (ישעיהו נז, ה) הנחמים באלים תחת כל עץ רענן שוחטי הילדים בנחלים תחת סעיפי הסלעים אל תקרי שוחטי אלא סוחטי רב אסי אמר כאילו עובד עבודת כוכבים כתיב הכא תחת כל עץ רענן וכתיב התם (דברים יב, ב) על ההרים הרמים ותחת כל עץ רענן.

Rambam Hilchot Isurei Biah 21:18

אסור להוציא שכבת זרע לבטלה לפיכך לא יהיה אדם דש מבפנים וזורה מבחוץ ולא ישא קטנה שאינה ראויה לילד אבל אלו שמנאפין ביד ומוציאין שכבת זרע לא די להם שאיסור גדול הוא אלא שהעושה זה בנדוי הוא יושב ועליהם נאמר ידיכם דמים מלאו וכאילו הרג הנפש.

The latter two Halachic sources, which are representative of the common position, make it clear that masturbation is an absolute prohibition.

And yet…

From a mental health perspective, this prohibition, and the strong language used to condemn this prohibition, can cause difficulties. The normal sexual development of a person includes experimentation with feeling one’s genitals. Ejaculation is seen as part of a process of physical development in adolescence. Moreover, the common emphasis on the prohibition of masturbation has led to excessive guilt, problems in later married life, and rejection of a Torah lifestyle altogether. Some men have decreased self belief that they can regulate themselves around sexuality, leading to behaviors like pornography and extramarital affairs. While the Halacha obviously must be accepted – as Orthodox Jews, we dare not suggest that the Halacha is mistaken – we may need to change the way we teach it to our students and children, so that we avoid the many negative consequences which have resulted from the common methods of education currently used. This is largely because the problems arise more from guilt than from arousal.

One approach is based upon the Torah’s teaching that we must regulate our behaviors and primal urges in all aspects of our lives. Indeed, there are many behaviors that must be regulated, and we need to put into perspective what is healthy and what is normal, alongside the demands of Halacha.

Because of a common tendency to overemphasize the evils of masturbation, If someone struggles with this issue, he likely will label himself as a bad person. Sexuality, in particular, can cause guilt —- from arousal as well as masturbation. We must fight against the tendency towards excessive guilt. A person who violates a prohibition has done just that, and not more than that; he must be taught not to label himself based on any given action. This does not define you, it’s a part of you.

Admittedly, the above Gemara states that if one masturbates, he deserves the death penalty. However, there are also other transgressions that also are liable for death penalty, according to Chazal – including, for example, saying Kriat Shma after midnight (Berachot 4a). The Gemara in that instance openly acknowledges that it is speaking hyperbolically; the same is likely true for masturbation. Acknowledging this does not take away the prohibition; it may, however, help put the prohibition into perspective, thereby alleviating the crushing guilt associated with it. Once it is put into perspective, some of the negative religious and emotional consequences mentioned above can be avoided.

For this reason, avoid shaming boys and using scare techniques. Instead, explain that ejaculation is a normal part of sexual development, AND that the Torah has prohibited it. We don’t justify the action; we put it into a context where it no longer defines the adolescent.

Additionally, once we have removed the excess guilt associated with masturbation, we allow ourselves to have a healthier discussion about it. Just as lashon hara is by all accounts prohibited, yet people generally do not define themselves by it – and its violation generally does not create a sense of crushing guilt – the same can be true for masturbation. Once excess guilt is removed from the equation, the discussion of this prohibition (without denying in any way that it is a prohibition) may proceed in a healthier direction.

The Torah wants couples to relate to one another with mutuality, respect, compassion, and love. Sexuality is a language to create intimacy with one another, and a means to bond. It is not merely an outlet, and a wife is not merely an object. Thus, it is not unreasonable to suggest that the strong language used in the Talmud against masturbation is potentially speaking largely to married men who choose to masturbate rather than having intercourse with their wives. (This may be validated by the fact that the Talmud clearly did not see its primary audience as 18-year-old single boys.) Masturbation is thus the flip side of the selfishness associated with seeing one’s wife as nothing more than an outlet for sexual desire. Rather than using sex as a means to give pleasure to his wife, a husband who masturbates – just like a husband who uses his wife for his own gratification, rather than trying to give her pleasure – is being extraordinarily selfish. This may be a large part of Chazal’s calculus when they expressed the prohibition against masturbation in such strong terms.

We should also teach that masturbation, like most things that we do, is a choice, not a loss of control. We all must take full responsibility for our choices and decisions. This places the individual back in the driver’s seat, and allows him to understand that even if he masturbates, he is doing so because he chooses to do so. He is not the victim of forces he cannot control.

We want to raise our children with balance and moderation. They should be taught that they need to make choices and decisions regarding all types of behaviors.

Sexuality needs to be discussed with children like any other matter within the context of the family’s philosophy. Do not shame children for asking questions. If they are struggling with something, use the discussion as an opportunity to teach and discuss. Help explain what is normal and healthy. You need tools so that you can have these personal talks that demonstrate respect, within the context of your own sexual values.

Keep in mind that if parents don’t talk to their children about sex, children will probably find other outlets in order to answer their questions. These will likely be much more problematic and inaccurate.

Forthright and frank, yet respectful and sensitive, I Am for My Beloved: A Guide to Enhanced Intimacy for Married Couples by Talli Rosenbaum and David Ribner will help couples enrich their marital and sexual lives, and maintain passion and intimacy within the framework of Jewish tradition.

Discover Intimate Judaism, where a rabbi and therapist discuss intimacy, sexuality, and relationships in the context of Jewish family life and Torah observance. We raise conflicts and challenges and offer candid solutions while remaining firmly within the bounds of Torah and Halacha.

We are excited to launch this monthly podcast, where we discuss issues of intimacy, sexuality and relationships within the context of Torah and Halacha.

In this pilot episode, we mention several topics we plan to discuss, including power struggles over sex, the effects of taharat hamishpacha on sexual satisfaction, the effects of events in the life cycle on marital intimacy, problems of pornography and infidelity, and more. We hope to integrate these issues with Halachic and philosophical ideas that underlie a Jewish approach to sexuality.

The Mishnah (Chagigah 11b) famously prohibits discussing sexual matters in front of more than two people. A proper analysis of the Gemara which explains this Mishnah, as well as the Rambam’s psak on the topic (Hilchot Isurei Biah 22:17) – alongside other points mentioned in the podcast – demonstrates clearly that this prohibition does not apply to discussions like those we will have in Intimate Judaism. In fact, for numerous reasons, we believe that it is imperative that this discussion take place in a manner that makes it easily accessible.

Here’s a quick bio of the hosts of Intimate Judaism:

Talli Rosenbaum has decades of experience in the field of sexual health, and is a certified sex therapist and an individual and couple therapist. She is an internationally regarded expert in this field and has published and lectured extensively.  Talli serves as the academic advisor for Yahel: The Center for Jewish Intimacy, which trains community leaders in sexual guidance counseling. Her experience in sexual, marital, and individual therapy with clients across the religious spectrum gives her a unique perspective that makes her clients feel respected and at ease.

Rabbi Scott Kahn, formerly the Rosh Yeshivaof Yeshivat Yesodei HaTorah, has educated and continues to inspire hundreds of students. Through his teaching there and in other yeshiva programs, via the many podcasts that he has produced that deal with the issues facing the Orthodox world, and from his extensive experience in teaching Chatan classes to young men, Rabbi Kahn has become expert and adept at addressing the issues that young men and women face both as singles and as married couples.