Outercourse, Wasting Seed, and Rabbis in the Bedroom Episode 16

Outercourse refers to sexual activity without intercourse. Couples may want to engage this way to experience alternative lovemaking options, or may need to because intercourse is painful or uncomfortable.

Does Jewish law permit couples to choose what they do in the bedroom, even if it consciously involves extra-vaginal ejaculation?

Join Talli Rosenbaum and Rabbi Scott Kahn as they respectfully discuss, and at times debate, this sensitive topic.

Rambam Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Isurei Biah 21:9:

אשתו של אדם מותרת היא לו. לפיכך כל מה שאדם רוצה לעשות באשתו עושה. בועל בכל עת שירצה ומנשק בכל אבר שירצה ובא עליה בין כדרכה בין שלא כדרכה בין דרך אברים ובלבד שלא יוציא שכבת זרע לבטלה. ואף על פי כן מדת חסידות שלא יקל אדם את ראשו לכך ושיקדש עצמו בשעת תשמיש…

A man’s wife is permitted to him. Therefore, whatever a man wants to do with his wife, he may do. He may have intercourse anytime he wants, kiss any part of her body, and have intercourse vaginally, anally, or “by way of her limbs” [as long as he does not spill seed for no purpose].  Nonetheless, it is an attribute of piety that a person should not act lightheartedly in these matters, and that he should sanctify himself during marital relations…

This is the text found in most versions of the Mishneh Torah today. However, as mentioned on the podcast, most early manuscripts of the Mishneh Torah do not include the bracketed words.

Raavad Baalei HaNefesh, Shaar HaKedushah:

 ומה שאמר רבי יוחנן אין הלכה כרבי יוחנן בן דהבאי אלא כל מה שאדם רוצה לעשות באשתו עושה משל לדג הבא מן הצייד וכו’, דמשמע שמותר לעשות כן לכתחילה, נראה לי שאינו אלא על הפיכת השולחן בלבד.

And Rabbi Yochanan’s statement that the law is not like Rabbi Yochanan ben Dahavai, but instead that whatever a man wants to do with his wife, he may do, similar to a fish brought by the fisherman etc., which implies that it is fully permitted to do this – it seems to me that this only refers to “upturning the table” (i.e., vaginal intercourse performed in atypical positions) alone. 

 

Please listen to Intimate Judaism Episode 8 – “Sex Within Marriage: What’s Allowed and What’s Not?” for a more extensive discussion of the original Gemara cited by the Raavad, and a fuller explanation of the disagreement of the Raavad and the Rambam.

Shulchan Aruch Even HaEzer 25:2:

(המחבר): לא יקל ראשו עם אשתו ולא ינבל פיו בדברי הבאי אפילו בינו לבינה. הרי הכתוב אומר “מגיד לאדם מה שיחו.” אמרו חז”ל אפילו שיחה קלה שבין אדם לאשתו עתיד ליתן עליה את הדין. ולא יספר עמה בשעת תשמיש ולא קודם לכן כדי שלא יתן דעתו באשה אחרת, ואם סיפר עמה ושימש מיד, עליו נאמר “מגיד לאדם מה שיחו.” אבל בענייני תשמיש יכול לספר עמה כדי להרבות תאותו, או אם היה לו כעס עמה וצריך לרצותה שתתפייס יכול לספר עמה כדי לרצותה. 

הגה (הרמ”א): ויכול לעשות עם אשתו מה שירצה, בועל בכל עת שירצה ומנשק בכל אבר שירצה ובא עליה בין כדרכה בין שלא כדרכה או דרך איברים ובלבד שלא יוציא זרע לבטלה (טור). ויש מקילין ואומרים שמותר שלא כדרכה אפילו אם הוציא זרע אם עושה באקראי ואינו רגיל בכך (גם זה טור בשם ר”י) ואף על פי שמותר בכל אלה, כל המקדש עצמו במותר לו קדוש יאמרו לו (דברי הרב).

A person should not act lightheaded with his wife, and should not speak inappropriate talk, even between the two of them. Indeed, the verse says, “He tells a man about his speech.” Our sages said that a person will be brought to judgment even for small talk between him and his wife. He should not speak to her at the time of intercourse nor beforehand, so that he doesn’t think about another woman; and if he does speak to her and have intercourse immediately afterwards – the verse “He tells a man about his speech” refers to him. However, he is allowed to talk to her regarding matters of intimacy, in order to increase his desire; or if he were angry with her and wants to appease her, he may speak to her to calm her down.

Note (Rama): He may do what he wants with his wife: he may have intercourse anytime he wants, kiss any part of her body, and have intercourse vaginally, anally, or “by way of her limbs”- as long as he does not waste seed for no purpose. And there are those who are lenient, saying that anal intercourse is permitted even if he spills seed for no purpose, if it’s done occasionally and he is not accustomed to doing it. Nonetheless, even though all these are permitted, anyone who sanctifies himself by refraining from doing that which is permitted is called a holy person.

 

Aruch HaShulchan Even HaEzer 25:11:

לפיכך אף על גב דקיימא לן דכל מה שאדם רוצה לעשות באשתו עושה כשהיא טהורה: בועל בכל עת שירצה ומנשק בכל אבר שירצה ובא עליה בין כדרכה ובין שלא כדרכה או דרך אברים ובלבד שלא יוציא זרע לבטלה, מכל מקום השם אורחותיו אין לו לעשות כן, אלא ישמש במקום שראוי ליזרע ולהוליד, דאי אפשר להזהר שלא יוציא זרע לבטלה וכמה חמור עון זה. ואף שיש מקילים גם בכי האי גוונא כשעושה באקראי ואינו רגיל בכך, אבל קשה לומר כן ושומר נפשו ירחק מזה, וכל המקדש עצמו במותר לו קדוש יאמר לו.

Therefore, even though we have established that whatever a man wants to do with his wife, he may do when she is in a state of purity – he may have intercourse anytime he wants, kiss any part of her body, and have intercourse vaginally, anally, or “by way of her limbs”- as long as he does not spill seed for no purpose – nevertheless, someone who is careful about his practices should not do this; rather he should have intercourse in the place on her body where it is possible that she will conceive and from which she gives birth, for it is impossible that otherwise he will not spill seed for no purpose, and this is a very serious sin. Although there are those who are lenient also in this matter when it is done occasionally and he is not accustomed to doing it – it nonetheless is difficult to say this and a person who guards his soul will distance himself from it, and anyone who sanctifies himself by refraining from doing that which is permitted is called a holy person.

 

 

Shapiro, Yaakov: Halachic Positions: What Judaism Really Says About Passion in the Marital Bed. 2015.

https://www.amazon.com/Halachic-Positions-Sexuality-Balanced-Approach/dp/0692563237/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1543840369&sr=1-1-catcorr

 

Talli Rosenbaum’s review of Halachic Positions:

http://tallirosenbaum.com/en/node/255

 

Four part interview with Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro on the “Orthodox Conundrum” podcast:

http://jewishcoffeehouse.com/episode-3-correcting-a-basic-misunderstanding-about-judaism-and-sexuality/

http://jewishcoffeehouse.com/episode-4-exploring-the-six-primary-talmudic-texts-dealing-with-sexuality/

http://jewishcoffeehouse.com/episode-5-is-non-vaginal-intercourse-permissible/

http://jewishcoffeehouse.com/episode-6-halachot-of-sexuality-wasting-seed-and-the-influence-of-the-zohar/

 

הרב דוד סתיו והרב אברהם סתיו: אבוא ביתך: שאלות ותשובות בנושא זוגיות ומשפחה. ספרי מגיד, הוצאת קורן 2017.

 

“I am his vessel”: Influence of male ejaculatory restrictions on women’s sexual autonomy in Orthodox Jewish marriages, by Talli Y. Rosenbaum, MSc

(This article was originally published in Hebrew in Kolech: Women and Her Judaism, Jerusalem, Israel 2012)

“I am his vessel”: Influence of male ejaculatory restrictions on women’s sexual autonomy in Orthodox Jewish marriages.

 

 

הרב יצחק רונס: “מגע פיזי בין בני זוג נשואים ללא ביאה”, אסיא צז-צח, תשע”ה, 134-140

https://bit.ly/33IwVi6

 

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